Engineering Professors’ Council
Minutes of the 95th meeting of the Committee
held 31st March 2008
At the International Manufacturing Centre, University of Warwick
Professors Helen Atkinson (HA), Fred Maillardet (FJM), Barry Clarke (BC), Raffaella Ocone (RO), Tony Unsworth (TU), Dik Morling (DM), Ray Allen (RA) (Chair), Clive Neal-Sturgess (CNS), Roger Green (RG), Julian Gardner (JG), John Turner (JT), Alistair Sambell (AS), David Harrison (DH), Dr. Dave Twigg (DT), Ian Whyte (IW), Mrs Fiona Martland (FM) and Mrs Vicky Elston (VE).
All other members of the Committee.
Minutes from the previous meeting held on 13th February 2008 were approved.
The meeting scheduled for 27/02/08 to discuss evidence in the Leitch Inquiry has been postponed.
The EPC Office has not been invoiced for stationery since moving rooms in early summer 2007. Enquiries need to be made at UniS. Action: FM/VE
The three pieces of evidence for the DIUS Select Committee Enquiry have been delivered on time.
RA announced that the EPC will be 50 years old in 2009 plus the committee will be holding it’s 100th meeting. He asked the committee what could be done to celebrate these events. Suggestions were
It was agreed that the task of deciding what to do should be passed to the successor to the Communications Working Group.
RA then thanked everyone for providing evidence for the DIUS consultation.
Everyone agreed they were happy with the Articles for Association as they stood.
RA then answered what has become ‘the Morling question’ i.e. “by how much does EPC’s income need to be increased by each year to make it sustainable given the current outgoings?” RA gave the answer as £35k which includes taking on more staff.
RA mentioned that two more consultations may need replies from the EPC
5. Treasurer’s Report
IW stated that a decision had been made by the Committee in 2002 to attempt to reduce the bank balance to approximately one year’s turnover (about £76k). IW said that the current balance was approximately £80k, so we were more or less on target.
IW then said that the major outgoings next year, apart from travel expenses, would be staff salaries and the website. He felt that the EPC was not in any trouble. Finally, he said that the proposed increase in subscriptions, previously agreed by the Committee, was to be raised at the AGM.
6.1 Admissions
DM reported that the group had met just before the Committee meeting. He reported that the London Engineering Project, the pilot for the National Engineering Project, had had a change of policy and that it was now a STEM-wide initiative rather than separate Physics, Chemistry, Maths and Engineering projects. He said that the current timescale was 18 months.
TU asked who would be running the combined project, but DM was unsure.
DM then announced that an Admission Tutors Workshop was scheduled for the 7th May. Flyers would be given to the Congress delegates. DM thanked FM for putting together the programme.
DM said that the group had been tasked with looking at the transition of students from school to university and consequently a survey was being run. DM explained that it will be an ‘open’ survey requesting written feedback from the students rather than statistical tick boxes with the aim of finding out where the students see problems. He hoped it would be a low cost survey.
FJM then reported on the Longitudinal Study saying that he had met with John Holman who had endorsed the need for the study and thought that it should maybe be broadened to include other STEM subjects rather than just Engineering. John Holman said he would raise it with the DCSF.
FJM stated that they still had no funding, but the number of supportive partners was increasing rapidly. He then wondered whether it was time to approach HefcE for support. It is expected that the cost of the study will be in the region of £1.5m.
6.2 Assessment
FJM reported that workshops continued to be run and proved to be very successful. He said that a number of professional bodies had asked for them and the one held for the IMechE had been a success.
FJM then reported that the ALOE website was now up and running.
6.4 Costings
HA reported that she has asked Claire Cox, the press officer with the ETB, about going to the press with the Costings Report, but had been told that the ETB did not want to approach the press.
HA then listed the papers that had picked up on the report – The Guardian, Independent, THES, The Professional Engineer – and asked the Committee to let her know of any future press articles so they may be documented.
HA felt that that in future it would be best to go for a formal press launch even if it seemed more complicated to set up. HA felt that she needed to talk to HefcE at Policy level, but it was important to invite someone from the ETB to be invited as well. It was agreed that FM would write to David Eastwood, CEO of Hefce. Action: FM
6.5 Ethics
RO reported that the recent workshop in March for accreditors went very well. It was attended by 40-50 delegates and consisted of few presentations and much brainstorming.
The next workshop, to be held in Leeds, is scheduled for the second week in April and is intended for engineers who have previously taught Ethics. It is intended that feedback from the event will then be used to share with potential Ethics teachers.
RO then reported that she was looking at ways of making the Ethics Working Group more sustainable. The next meeting of the group is scheduled for 16th April and RO is due to report then on her ideas.
6.6 International
CNS reported that the European Qualification Framework is now in place. He said that QAA were working on self certification for England and expected to complete it by the autumn. Discussions about ECTS are ongoing.
6.7 Mathematics
FJM reported that there was continuing support of the IMA, More Maths Grads, ACME and NCETM, which seemed to be establishing itself successfully.
He then reported that the Maths Task Group had continued to look at the new Engineering Diploma and the proposed optional Mathematics module. He said that QCA had asked to join the group and spoke about the transformation of the attitudes of the other awarding bodies: ABC, Edexcel and OCR.
He said that four workshops had been run so far and the fourth was scheduled for 23rd April in London. Dr Sapna Somani was working on developing the exemplars for the optional Maths module.
FJM then said that contacts from the Manufacturing and Science Diplomas had begun talks with the group with the intention of using the new Maths module. He said that the new diplomas are explained on the IMechE website and wondered if we should have something similar on the website.
Action: VE
FJM feels that the time is right to publicise what we have been doing; maybe through the website. HA asked why the new Maths module shouldn’t be an ‘A’ level in its own right. The answer was that it is only 180 guided learning hours and needs to be double for an ‘A’ level. It was decided that publicising the module would be looked at on a later date, as tackling the awarding bodies was thought to be tricky. In the meantime, it was thought something could be put on the website such as the Learning Outcomes document.
Action: FJM/AS
6.8 Finance
IW mentioned that EPC’s deposit account had a very low rate, because it is classed as a club. Hopefully, the rate would double once we become a company. He said that he was also looking in to changing banks, but this was all tied in with becoming a company.
6.9 Future of Engineering Degrees
BC reported that he had had positive contacts with a variety of stakeholders. The first meeting of the group has been arranged for 30th May.
A new item for the AGM this year will be brief reports from each of the working groups that aren’t otherwise on the Congress programme. RA suggested all presentations should be downloaded to one laptop.
RA then went through how he proposed presenting the Incorporation Process to the members. He envisaged three sections, each followed by a motion:
The proposed new members of the Committee will also need to be confirmed at the AGM. The list of all proposed names as well as existing committee members was tabled. FM said that it may still be desirable to co-opt a member from Wales.
FM also said that Loughborough had agreed to host the 2010 Congress.
RG confirmed that he now had all of the talks and speaker’s biographies on cds. He mentioned that Lord Sainsbury had said that he wanted to just give a short address after the Congress dinner rather than a long speech.
He said that he had not had time to make hard copies of all the talks, but the committee agreed it would not be a major problem.
TU mentioned that they could be added to the website. FM asked RG to send them to the EPC office, once he had permission from each of the speakers and they would then be loaded on to the website. Action: RG/FM/VE
There was a possibility that BB would not able to attend the Congress, so it was agreed that CNS would stand in for his task of chairing the International Issues of Engineering Education section if necessary.
There is concern about the ‘shelf-life’ of credits as well as accruing credits across several cities/countries.
David Gale from QAA then gave an update.
It was agreed that nothing would be done other than responding to the consultation. FM has written a letter outlining our concerns.
RA said that he had discussed the matter with Roger Pollard and they both agreed that the time had come to close down the working group. However they felt also that there was a need to revisit the aims of the group and start again. It was agreed by the Committee to disband the group.
RA said that the group had visited Ian Gray from the Technical Strategy Board in Swindon and were impressed with the organisation. They also felt that they left a good impression of the EPC with the TSB, particularly the ready contact of 1600 engineering professors nationally.
RA then said that AS was now looking after internal communications (website and newsletters), but what should the Committee do about external communications in the future? FM mentioned that she had been having problems contacting ministers lately, maybe because of the changes to the prime minister/cabinet last summer. BC said that he felt that external communications were about being seen as an authoritative body by key influencers. HA wondered whether tackling the opposition may instigate the government to listen to us more.
RA then said he would organise a brainstorming session outside the meeting for committee members who were interested in the subject. It was agreed that a new working group needs to be formed, strategic in nature with an outwards focus. RA will set up an initial meeting before the July committee meeting asking for volunteers to join the group, including past presidents. Action: RA
FM said that some MPs in the past have offered to ask questions in parliament and should we take advantage of that now? HA asked if it was worth compiling a list of MPs on relevant Select Committees etc.
This was noted at the meeting, but not discussed.
VE reported that a quote had been obtained from Rocket Science for the proposed changes to the website, but they had added a proviso that if they did the work, they would expect the hosting of the site to be returned to them. DM expressed concern over this. He felt, as did the rest of the committee, that the web development and hosting were better kept separate. CNS then mentioned that he knew of websites where you could get web development done fairly cheaply and easily. He said he would pass on the information to VE.
Action: VE/CNS
As previously mentioned, Loughborough have agreed to host this.
An aide memoire, written by FM, was tabled and noted. RA thanked FM for producing it.
TU asked if the EPC should do more regarding the percentage of women in engineering (15%), in particular the number of professors (2%). HA suggested inviting someone from UKRC to the next Congress. RA felt an article could be placed in the next newsletter or added to the website and an item to discuss this should be added to the agenda for the next Committee meeting. Action: RA
FM had had a request from Andrew Ramsey for volunteers to stand-up and be quoted on saying that they would welcome students with further maths qualifications.
RA then gave thanks to JG who is standing down from the Committee.
The next meeting of the Committee will be Wednesday 9th July.