Engineering Professors’ Council
Minutes of the 98th meeting of the Committee
Held 26th November 2008
At the Royal Academy of Engineering, London
Professors Alistair Sambell (AS), Roger Green (RG), David Harrison (DH), Clive Neal-Stugess (CNS), Ray Allen (RA) (Chair), Cedric d’Mello (CDM), Barry Clarke (BC), Sarath Tennakoon (ST), Fred Maillardet (FJM), Stephanie Haywood (SH), Bob Reuben (BR), Robin Clarke (RC), John Dickens (JD), Mr Ian Whyte (IW),Mrs Fiona Martland (FM) and Mrs Vicky Elston (VE).
All other members of the Committee.
Minutes from the previous meeting held on 8th September 2008 were approved.
3. Prepare annotated list of EPC reps indicating level of interest in EPC and add ‘Engagement with Reps’ as an agenda item for next Committee meeting.
Action Complete: FM
Circulate list of Committee meeting dates for 2008/9.
Action Complete: FM
6. Increase VE’s working hours to 2 days per week.
Action Complete: IW
7. Consider what corporate members want from EPC and what we can offer them. Action Complete: FM/RA
8. Complete and send in Incorporation papers.
Action Complete: DH
9. External Relations Working Group: Respond on behalf of EPC to enquiry into the role of engineering and government.
Action Complete: BC
Other Possible Working Groups: Professional Development and Conditions of Service - Draft possible terms of reference of a group to look at staffing issues to allow an informed decision to be taken at next meeting.
Action C/F: DM
Other Possible Working Groups: Sustainability
Link area of sustainability and climate change into work on the future of engineering degrees.
Action BC to report later in meeting
10. Sectoral Groups: Arrange a meeting of sectoral group chairs at the 2009 Congress.
Action Complete: JY/FM
(to be held morning of Monday 20th April 2009 at Heriot Watt University)
It was also suggested that arranging individual Sectoral Group meetings some time during the Congress may draw delegates. FM will send a note to the group chairs. Action: FM
11. Future Events: Explore possibilities for 50th birthday celebrations next year. Action Complete: BC to report later in meeting
RA reported that he had had a phone call from someone at IPEM (EPC’s first Corporate member) asking what membership of EPC actually meant. RA said that a representative of the institution could attend future meetings (possibly the February Committee meeting) plus they could have the opportunity to start a new Sectoral Group. It was also discussed that our only other Corporate member so far is the IMechE. RA would like to see the letter that Professor Bill Banks, president of IMechE, sent to the office. VE will send him a copy. Action: VE
FM said that many of the engineering institutions that were written to in July, inviting them to become Corporate members, had not replied. It was suggested that we should remind them of the offer. Action: RA/FM
FM then mentioned an email recently sent to her from Hannah Fearns at the THE regarding opinions on research. FM had distributed it round the committee and had had some feedback. She said she would merge any comments sent to her into a document to reply to Hannah.
Action: FM
5. Treasurer’s Report
IW tabled a graph showing EPC’s bank assets. The trend is downwards, but is starting to stabilise. He felt there was no great cause for concern, but any additional funds (e.g. from Corporate Membership), would help the bank balance.
IW then said that CaSE were disappointed that EPC had not renewed subscription this year. RA said that their concern was that if they subscribed to one engineering institution, they would need to join many. RA felt that EPC get value from CaSE and that we should pay this year’s subscription, but renewal should be discussed by the Committee each year. DH noted that EPC were not mentioned as a supporting body in the recent copy of CaSE News, which could be a result of our not renewing in the summer. IW will pay this year’s subscription. Action: IW
IW then reported that he had received a letter from EPC’s accountants asking if we would like to take out fee protection insurance to cover us for a situation where Revenue and Customs want to perform an investigation and accountant’s fees could become prohibitive (estimated approximately £4000). It was agreed by members that a premium of £215 was too much for such an unlikely event and so we would not take out the insurance, but run the risk ourselves.
6. Incorporation
DH has sent the forms in, but EPC is being asked to demonstrate that it is a representative body before being allowed to become incorporated.
Once DH has the evidence, he will need to see a notary public again as the Memorandum has had slight changes made. He felt that all of the issues should be resolved within the next couple of weeks and the application for incorporation could then be resubmitted. Action: DH
7. Working Group Reports
7.1 Admissions
Professor Dik Morling was unable to attend the meeting, but his written report, distributed before the meeting, was noted. He will be performing analysis of the transition questionnaires, sent to all EPC reps for all new engineering students to complete, and it is hoped he will be able to report on results from the analysis at the next committee meeting. Action: DM
FJM went through his EEA report (distributed before the meeting) and RA thanked him for all of his efforts.
7.2 Assessment
FJM went through his written report (distributed before the meeting). He said that the ALOE Conference (scheduled for 27th November 2008) had attracted approximately 50 delegates which was a little disappointing. Regarding the future of the group,, he said that the idea of changing the focus of the group to more work-based learning was taking off.
7.3 Budget
It was agreed that this had become more of an Interest Group and that a watching brief would be kept so reactions could be made when required.
7.4 Ethics
It was agreed that this had become more of an Interest Group and that a watching brief would be kept so reactions could be made when required.
7.5 External Relations
The group’s recent meeting with Bill Rammell was cancelled due to a cabinet reshuffle. FM has not so far had any luck in arranging a meeting with the new minister, David Lammy. The group has managed to meet with two opposition MPs however. The meeting with the Liberal Democrat, Stephen Williams was not very successful as he appeared to have not prepared for the meeting. He did however offer to ask a question in parliament regarding the number of students taking the new Engineering Diploma.
The meeting with the Conservative MP Rob Wilson (on the DIUS Select Committee) was much more successful as he seemed concerned with the issues raised and asked more pertinent questions. The group felt it was worth requesting a follow-up meeting with him, possibly in January.
RA said that AS would be producing a draft of the next EPC newsletter within the next couple of weeks. AS said that he had received many articles – too many for a 1-page 2-sided document, so he would be performing some heavy editing and referring to the website for more information whenever possible.
7.6 Finance
No report. The main issue that the group is currently dealing with i.e. Incorporation was covered elsewhere on the agenda.
7.7 Future of Engineering Degrees
BC tabled a report on progress of the group along with a draft strategic map. He said that they are due to meet again in January 2009. The current activity of the group was to monitor the situation and to facilitate the various bodies involved talking to each other.
7.8 International
The group had not met since the last committee meeting, but were due to meet straight after the current meeting. CNS reported that the IET meeting had been very over-subscribed. Feedback was that the QAA presentation was disappointing. This seemed to be due to a delay in the report.
CNS said that the take up of EURACE had been good in mainland Europe, particularly in Germany, but there had been no take up in the UK.
7.9 Mathematics
FJM went through his written report (distributed before the meeting). He said that the group had received a presentation from a member of the Evaluating Mathematics Pathways project and after the success of the Maths for Engineering module, which has now been formally accredited for the Manufacturing and the Construction and Built Environment Diplomas as well as the Engineering Diploma and as well as a standalone module, that the next focus would be looking at physics.
He said that UCAS currently have an embargo on offering any new tariffs as they had been so overwhelmed with requests. It is expected that they will be looking at issues with the new Diplomas in early 2009.
FJM said that of the 2,800 students who have started on the Engineering Diploma this year, 387 are on level 3. The numbers taking the Maths for Engineering module are unknown as they wouldn’t start until January 2009.
He said that the key issue was teacher support. The government seemed to be providing support, but it was unknown how much of this was for mathematics teachers.
RA asked if it was worth asking our MP contacts to ask a question in parliament regarding the percentage of teacher support funds that is going in to mathematics. Everyone agreed, so RA will contact Rob Wilson.
Action: RA
8 EPC/NCUP Seminar on Financial Challenges - Feedback
FM said that the event had been very successful after much hard work in confirming the speaker line-up. BC said that one of the highlights had been Adrian Smith’s (from DIUS) presentation. He quoted some surprising figures such as the fact that the UK has 1% of the world’s population, but is involved in 4.5% of the research being carried out around the world. He said that other good presentations had been Paul Hubbard from HEFCE and Professor Helen Atkinson’s on the Cost of Engineering report.
There was then a discussion on the advantages and disadvantages of sharing future events with the NCUP. It was felt that NCUP’s extensive mailing list was an advantage for attracting delegates to future events. However, a disadvantage is that NCUP do not seem to have the contacts for attracting speakers and so this time consuming task fell to the EPC. Overall, everyone agreed that it was worth doing again in the future.
BC suggested that we could possibly ask NCUP, via their mailing list, to advertise future EPC events, even if they are not involved. All agreed a good idea. Action: FM
9. 2009 EPC Congress Update
RA, FM and BR met in October to plan for the 2009 Congress to be held at Heriot Watt University. BR said that he would like to ask members of the committee (DM, BC, FJM and TU) to facilitate the discussion groups. He said that he had a full list of speakers to cover all sessions, but only about half of them were confirmed. He said that his main worry currently was the lack of a big-draw speaker. He was hoping for Fiona Hislop, a Scottish Cabinet minister, but she could not make it. He asked the Committee for opinions on whether to ask one of her task force instead, or attempt to get another MP. FM suggested the newly appointed CEO of HEFCE, Sir Alan Langlands due to take up his post in April as he is a Scot. BC also suggested Phil Willis, or Rob Wilson. BR will ask each of them in parallel. FM will provide BR with the contact details for each.
Action: BR/FM
BR said he will update the programme to include session speakers and facilitators and will distribute amongst the Committee and will also produce a flyer in the next couple of weeks to send out to the membership. It was agreed that the next newsletter should be sent out to the full EPC membership before Christmas and the flyer to follow on soon after. Action: AS/BR
There was then another discussion about having individual Sectoral Group meetings at some point during the Congress. It was agreed that this time it would be difficult to fit in, but should be considered for future congresses.
A suggestion was then made that instead of inviting members of the Committee to facilitate the Congress discussions, that EPC representatives should be invited to do so. VE to remind RA/FM to email selected reps regarding this. Action: VE/RA/FM
10. EPC Representatives Engagement
RA then went through the annotated list of current EPC representatives and a discussion ensued about how best to keep them involved and more active as RA said that the list included potential Committee members for the future.
RC suggested that a meeting specifically for the reps was held at the Congress next year, maybe on the Wednesday afternoon once the sessions are complete or a more informal event on the Monday evening. RA said that he would like to send a personal invitation to the Congress selected reps in mid-January. He would like to send two emails, one to those that were deemed ‘active’ and one to the remainder of the reps. If we had no response from these emails, a reminder should be sent as a follow-up. Action: RA/VE
The Committee then went through the annotated list and identified the ‘active’ representatives.
RA said that he thought Richard Darton at Oxford was probably now too busy to fulfil his EPC rep role and would speak to him. Action: RA
A number of universities are currently without reps as the previous one has retired and no replacement has been offered:
Regarding Aberdeen, RA will contact the VC. Action: RA
Regarding Open University, BR will contact Mark Endean. Action: BR
Regarding Sheffield Hallam, VE to speak to RA if no luck with Terrence Perrara. Action: VE
Regarding Manchester, IW has a contact. Action: IW
Regarding South Bank, who have decided to not continue EPC membership, FM will write to Rob Best to say we hope they will reconsider next year.
Action: FM
It was then suggested that all universities that have accredited degrees and were not currently members of EPC should be personally approached and invited to subscribe. VE to send RA list of the universities and RA to contact them. Action: VE/RA
11. EPC Office Arrangements
FM said that the EPC Office have been asked to move rooms again within the University of Surrey. The current planned move is for the week beginning 19th January 2009. FM said that in that time, she and VE would not be able to answer emails or phones and the office was in effect closed for the week.
RA then announced that it had been agreed that FM would reduce her contracted hours to 2 days per week and 39 weeks per year from January 2009. He will advertise for someone to work alongside her – possibly 2.5 days per week initially on a 1-year contract. Action: RA
FM said that much of her time was spent arranging and attending Working Group meetings. If these can be arranged alongside other meetings (e.g. the International Working Group meeting was scheduled to follow the Committee meeting) or even if meetings could be held virtually, this will save much of FM’s time as well as cut travel costs.
It was then suggested that another way of cutting costs would be if Committee members were able to claim their travel expenses for attending the congress through their universities wherever possible rather than through EPC.
. Action: ALL
12. EPC 50th Birthday Party Arrangements
BC tabled a document that he had written outlining ideas to celebrate the fact that EPC will be 50 years old in 2009. There was a discussion about the cost and AS asked if it was possible to get a sponsor. BC said that the reception could not be held at Westminster unless the date is changed from 20th May. However, the event can be held at the Royal Academy of Engineering and the advantage would be that we would not have to pay for the several rooms that would be required for discussions during the day.
It was suggested that throughout 2009, all EPC literature for the Congress, newsletters, website, and all letters sent out should indicate the 50th birthday milestone. Action: BR/AS/FM/VE
13. Sustainability and Climate Change
Angela Dean’s document, which had been distributed before the meeting, was discussed, with BC leading. After the discussion, the answers to AD’s questions were
BC said he will put notes together from the discussion and report back to AD.
Action: BC
14. Innovation, Universities, Science and Skills Committee Enquiry on Universities and Students
FM led the discussion. She said that she had already had some responses from committee members to the email regarding the enquiry. The response deadline is 11th December. It was agreed that:
It was agreed that all drafts need to be complete by 4th December and passed to FM so they can be distributed around the committee for final comments before FM sends final response in.
Action: DM/BC/CNS//FM
RA then said that John Denham had published nine contributions to the debate on the future of Higher Education. BC suggested that they could form an agenda for a meeting with David Lammy if FM is able to secure one. RA said that an Open Forum existed on the website for the debate and asked how EPC should react.
FM suggested contacting John Denham and asking for a meeting. It was thought that he would probably decline, but he may then pass the request on to David Lammy which may hold more weight than a request directly from EPC and arranging a meeting between the EPC External Relations group and David Lammy may be more successful.
15. Any Other Business
FM referred to a document published by the Engineering Subject Centre concerning a proposed seminar on links with employers and asked the committee if they were happy to ‘jointly badge’ the event. All agreed that EPC should.
CNS asked whether EPC could run web-based surveys. He said that companies can set up and run surveys for just a few hundred pounds and it may be worth considering in the future.