Engineering Professors’ Council
Minutes of the 99th meeting of the Committee
held 4th February 2009
At the Royal Academy of Engineering, London
Professors Ray Allen (RA) (Chair), Barry Clarke (BC), Fred Maillardet (FJM), Raffaella Ocone (RO), Dik Morling (DM), Alistair Sambell (AS), Bob Reuben (BR), Ian Whyte (IW), Tony Unsworth (TU), Jim Yip (JY), Stephanie Haywood (SH), Dr. Dave Twigg (DT), Ms Angela Dean (AD), Mrs Fiona Martland (FM) and Mrs Vicky Elston (VE).
All other members of the Committee.
Minutes from the previous meeting held on 26th November 2008 were approved.
Many of the actions assigned to RA had not been completed due to other commitments. He will meet with FM/VE at the EPC Office later in February to attempt to clear these up.
3. DM has drafted a paper on new Working Group: Professional Development and Conditions of Service and will send to FM. Action: DM
5. Subscription to CaSE now paid.
6. The Incorporation of EPC is now complete.
7.9 RA was due to contact Rob Wilson to request a question in parliament about the proportion of teacher support funds going to mathematics, but RA reported that Rob Wilson has now moved to a new position.
Action withdrawn: RA
9. Newsletter and Congress flyer sent out to membership.
10. TU said that the new VC at Sheffield Hallam, Phil Jones, was previously at Durham so will contact him regarding renewing EPC membership.
Action: TU
11. The job description for the new post to be advertised needed finalising and this was due to be completed at the Officers’ meeting following on from the Committee meeting. Action c/f: RA
13. BC has documented the discussion on Sustainability and Climate Change.
14. It was agreed that a response to the Innovation, Universities, Science and Skills Committee Enquiry on Universities and Students would not be given by EPC.
FM said that she had not so far been able to book a meeting with David Lammy, the new HE Secretary. She said that she would write to John Denham. Action: FM
There was then a discussion amongst committee members and the opinion was that the DIUS was taking a while to establish itself. The feeling was that the DCSF, under Ed Balls, was much more forthright.
RA reported that he went to the CaSE AGM and was left with a positive impression, but felt that the institution was not as strong now that Peter Cotgreave was not in charge.
IW said that he had been contacted by CaSE who were looking for 3 or 4 EPC members to work with them to improve communications between the two groups. It was agreed that the Working Group chairs would be the best people from EPC.
IW
RA then asked those present if they had noticed any effects of the ‘credit crunch’. JY said that he felt that sandwich students were finding it more difficult to find work placements so many were staying at university. RA felt that as graduates found it difficult to get employment, more may stay on to study for masters degrees.
RA then reported that he and BC had attended the Parliamentary Scientific Committee annual lunch with RA being honoured with a top table place and BC on the next table. Everyone felt this showed that EPC were highly regarded. RA said that it was a good chance to network.
FM then said that The Royal Society wanted more nominations from engineers and that 24% of articles in their journals involved engineering.
Professor Sir Martin Taylor and Peter Cotgreave from The Royal Society then joined the meeting.
5. Treasurer’s Report
IW said that assets were a little down. VE will send reminders to those universities that have not paid this year’s subscriptions. Action: VE
RA asked how EPC’s incorporation status was affecting the banking. IW said that he would investigate and recommend a new bank by April. IW then said that he had received corporation tax papers. He said that EPC need to nominate a group of accountants. It was agreed we would use the group that are currently used for preparing the end-of-year accounts.
IW then said that he had received an invoice for subscription to SEFI and asked if the committee felt that EPC should continue to subscribe. FM and FJM felt that it represented good value for money, so it was agreed that IW should pay. Action: IW
Professor Sir Martin Taylor, Vice President and Physical Secretary of the RS then gave a presentation to the committee.
He explained about what the RS does and the plans for its 350th anniversary in 2010.
BC asked if one of the 2010 2-day conferences run by the RS could be allocated to engineering, but Sir Martin said that all of the 2-day slots had already been allocated for next year. He thought it may be possible to arrange something for 2011.
FM then asked if it would be possible to get copies of the presentation slides to add to the EPC website and was assured that they would be emailed after the meeting.
Peter Cotgreave then announced that it was still not too late for nominations for awards for 2009. He said that the deadline was 25th February.
8. Working Group Reports
8.1 Admissions
DM reported a good response to the Starting at University questionnaires, having received over 1000 completed ones to date. He said that analysis of them was ongoing.
RA asked what would DM do with the results and DM said that he would produce a report which could be added to the EPC website. He expected to have the report completed in time for the Congress. Action: DM
FJM then reported on EEA activities. He said that the newly formed E4E (a collaboration of some 34 professional engineering bodies) would hopefully mean that engineers can speak with one voice.
FJM then said that the Longitudinal Study group have met for the last time. If unsuccessful, it will be broken up in to smaller study groups.
8.2 Assessment
FJM presented his written report which can be found on the EPC website.
8.3 Budget
HA was not present at the meeting, but it was noted that she had given a presentation about our report on Costs of Engineering Teaching to the National Committee of Heads of Accounting.
8.4 Ethics
RO presented her written report which can be found on the EPC website.
8.5 External Relations
RA said that Rob Wilson, the shadow HE minister had been replaced by David Evenett and that the group were hoping to arrange a meeting with him.
He said that they had been unsuccessful in securing a meeting with David Lammy, the new government HE minister. FM said that she would try contacting John Denham Action: FM
RA said that he had had a good discussion with Tony Cleaver from the ETB at the Parliamentary Scientific Committee lunch the previous day.
He said that the group had met with Lizzie Holmes and David Cairncross from the CBI who are responsible for funding research and university relations.
RA said that the group were also attempting to arrange a meeting with John Bennington, the Chief Scientist. In the interim, FM is hoping to meet Tony Whitehead, who works in his team . Action: FM
8.7 Future of Engineering Degrees
BC presented his written report which can be found on the EPC website. This provoked a lively discussion.
8.8 International
CNS was not present at the meeting, but his update report was presented to the committee members. RA said that he was concerned about CNS’s request for suggestions as to how to approach VCs. The issue was carried forward to a future committee meeting.
8.9 Mathematics
FJM presented his update report which can be found on the EPC website. He said that the working group were now looking at issues with the Science diploma and also developments in school qualifications in physics.
He said that the Maths for Engineering module had now been accredited, but due to heavy workloads, it has still not been given a UCAS tarrif. He said that the standard procedure was for UCAS to seek approval for it from at least 30 universities. The full quota had not been reached by Autumn 2008 and so UCAS wrote to more universities in January 2009.
He said that the group were now turning their attention to teacher support. SSAT have now agreed funding which is expected to find its way towards supporting teaching of the new diplomas.
9. EPC Congress 2009
BR presented the latest programme and flyer for the Heriot Watt Congress.
He said that he was hoping to complete both within the next couple of weeks and redistribute to EPC members. Action: BR
He said that 19 of the speakers were confirmed. FJM expressed concern over the total number of speakers and felt more time should be allocated for discussion. RA asked for an update on registered delegates. BR said that he had had about a dozen requests for information so far.
It was agreed that the EPC Office would send out a hard copy of the flyer to everyone on the contacts list (media, mps and engineering institutions) and BR will attempt to get the attention of the Scottish press. Action:FM/VE/BR
It was agreed that six members of the committee would run the Congress sessions. It was hoped that the idea of using EPC representatives as rapporteurs could be used at the 50th Birthday Celebration in May.
10. EPC 50th Birthday Celebration
BC presented his paper with suggestions for the event.
He said that the suggested sessions were based on what is topical and would be even more so by May:-
BC said that the idea was that each session should have a fixed chair and secretary and the delegates, split into four groups, would rotate through each of the sessions so everyone gets a chance to discuss each of the topics.
BC said that ICE would forgo the room charge for the dinner, but it would be a maximum of 20 people at up to £50 per head.
FM mentioned that the RAE rooms were booked for 20th May, so the date should be in everyone’s diary.
The question was then raised as to what was the date in 1959 that EPC began. VE will attempt to find out the date of the first meeting. Action: VE
RA then asked if everyone present agreed with the chosen four topics.
DM queried ‘Flexible Learning’ and after discussion it was agreed to merge it with ‘WBL’ as they were similar.
Also, it was felt that Sector Skills should be kept within the committee so this too was dropped from the four topics.
Knowledge Transfer and Sustainability were then suggested as the replacement topics.
BC then suggested chairs for the topics:
RA suggested that EPC representatives could be invited to be the four secretaries. How these are chosen was to be discussed outside the Committee meeting. Action: RA
Suggestions for keynote speakers were then discussed. It was agreed that BC should speak, as EPC president. Others suggested were Ian Gibson, possibly on The Role of Engineering in Society, Lord Sainsbury, Lord Brown, president of the RAE and Sir Martin Taylor, vice-president of The Royal Society. FM to contact them. Action: FM
Draft programme to be compiled by FM and VE. Action: FM/VE
It was agreed that the EPC membership should be emailed, saying that the event will be by invitation only and asking for nominations. Action: RA/VE
The nominated members will then be used as the invitation list.
DM asked of we had any ‘memorabilia’ from the early years of EPC. VE to look through the papers in the office for anything suitable. Action: VE
13. RAE/REF
There was a lively discussion over RAE issues, the main worry being over whether the panels would be representative. RA asked what could the EPC do about it. BC suggested two ideas:
It was agreed that RA would contact Geoff Thomason to ask who was on the panels and to express our concerns. Action: RA
14. STEM
Following on from a couple of emails sent by FM to the committee members, there was a discussion. Birmingham has been chosen as the lead university. FM said that John Turner, who was not present at the meeting, was on the Steering Committee and would be happy to feed in any concerns that EPC have. AD said that she was attending a meeting the following Monday and would report back to the Committee. Action: AD
15. Office Move
This has been delayed and is currently scheduled for Tuesday 10th February.
18. Any Other Business
BC said he was contacting the professional engineering institutions to ask what they are doing with regard to Sustainability.